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  Interview: Alexander Downer October 14, 2007 Reporter : Laurie Oakes  Watch videoSunday's political editor Laurie Oakes talks to Foriegn Minister, Alexander Downer. Transcript LAURIE OAKES: Mr Downer, welcome to the program. ALEXANDER DOWNER: Thank you, Laurie. LAURIE OAKES: You might be minister for foreign affairs but I guess like every other member of the government it is domestic affairs that you've got in the front of your mind today. ALEXANDER DOWNER: Well, yes, obviously, look, the Prime Minister will make the announcement about the election at the appropriate time. I'm not going to pre-empt anything the Prime Minister may say, but, look, the election has to be fairly soon and we're obviously preparing for that and we'll work very hard to make sure that we get re-elected. LAURIE OAKES: There's another bad opinion poll today, a real shocker that gives Labor a lead of 18 points. Can you overcome that kind of problem? ALEXANDER DOWNER: I don't think the opinion polls are going to be what people vote on. I think it's going to be a combination of things. First of all, I think the public believe that Australia is heading in the right direction. At least most of them do. I think they're happy with the way the economy is going. They're happy with Australia's place in the world. They feel very confident about our country. And what we will reminding them is that to change the government is to change the country. To change the direction of the country and put in place a government 70 percent of whose ministers are former trade union officials. They'll be Labor governments everywhere from the ACT to Western Australia to Canberra and the national government. It will just be a one party country dominated by trade unions. I think those issues will be issues people will reflect on leading up to the actual vote as distinct from the endless discussion about opinion polls which come out every two or three days. LAURIE OAKES: We have had situations before where the one-party governed at state and federal level. I remember under John Gorton we had all Liberal premiers at one stage. This is not really an argument against voting Labor, is it? ALEXANDER DOWNER: Well, for a very brief phase, stage, actually, that was the only time and it was extremely brief, but look, I think there is a strong argument that when the country is heading in the right direction, when we feel confident about our country, to change the government is to change the direction of Australia. It is to change Australia. And what would you change it to? You would change it to a country run completely from coast to coast by a political party which is the political wing of the trade union movement. I think that would be a very regressive step for Australia. I mean you can make a contrary argument. I don't agree with it. I think that would be a very significant step back for our country. I'm trying to think where I've head that phrase 'heading in the right direction before'. Was that Morris Iemma's slogan? ALEXANDER DOWNER: I have no idea. Look I live in South Australia, excuse me if I didn't follow the New South Wales State election. I haven't heard anything he said at all. It didn't come through here in South Australia. LAURIE OAKES: If you've lifted his slogan it might not be considered good politics in the Liberal Party. But if you start this campaign 10 points behind and you've been 10 points behind for the best part of a year, how do you make up that ground? ALEXANDER DOWNER: Well I think people concentrate on the sort of issues I'm talking about, that's all. I mean, you see, I'm out there on the ground; I'm not actually just sitting pouring over opinion polls day in and day out. My sense when I go around the Australian community and I was in New South Wales and Queensland during last week and obviously I live here in South Australia, is that there hasn't been a time and this of course is in stark contrast to the State Government's position in New South Wales — there hasn’t been a time in Australia's history when I remember people feeling so good about Australia. I mean, I think people think this is the most fantastic country in the world. They obviously know its economy is going well. Most people have seen their living standards increase. We have unemployment at the lowest rate it's been for 33 years. And Australia is a very proud and confident country in the world. And, I mean, looking at politics, the politics outside of an election period is a different thing from when you really get to focus on those core issues. If you change the government, let me repeat this, if you change the government, you will change the country. It will not continue as it is continuing today. There will be different people running it and essentially they will be trade union officials. They will be the people who will be running Australia everywhere, in the years ahead. So people will reflect on that. LAURIE OAKES: If things are so good and if we are heading in the right direction, why for the last nine or 10 months have Australians been telling pollsters they want to get rid of you? What mistakes has the Government made that has caused that reaction? ALEXANDER DOWNER: The mistake, I think, with the greatest of respect that journalists make is that they become completely preoccupied with opinion polls. I don't think people do ... LAURIE OAKES: Unlike politicians. ALEXANDER DOWNER: I don't think ... well, I think you know, it depends what sort of politician you're talking about. I think the sophisticated politicians with a lot of experience understand that you need to focus on not only doing the right thing by the country, but making sure the country is working well. And I think this country is working well. I think it's working exceptionally well. I mean people have written off governments year in and year out on the basis of opinion polls all over the world. I remember very recently the Irish government, Ireland was doing very well, the Opposition had a massive lead in the opinion polls, of course the media thought hooray, there's going to be a change of government, big story, big controversy, the government got re-elected when the time actually came. I mean in the last week of the election campaign in Ireland the opinion polls turned out to have been wrong. So you know, I think the thing isn't what last week's Newspoll or whatever it happened to be says. The thing is to focus on the interests of the country. I mean in any case, what you can do about an opinion poll which has come and gone. You need to think about the future. LAURIE OAKES: Well there was a group of sophisticated politicians called the cabinet only a few weeks ago on the basis of a bad opinion poll suggested the Prime Minister should jump overboard. Is he the problem? Are Australians sick of John Howard? ALEXANDER DOWNER: No, don't think they are. I think Australians have enormous respect for John Howard. I think they feel he is somebody who is absolutely in control of the country, somebody who has run a very good government and of course he will over the next few weeks be outlining a whole series of plans that we have as a government, he has as the Prime Minister and we have for the future. I don't think there's any doubt that people everywhere I go think John Howard has been a very effective prime minister. LAURIE OAKES: There was an item in a Sunday newspaper last week saying that your wife had been overheard saying that you and she didn't think the Coalition had a chance. Did you say that? ALEXANDER DOWNER: Did I say it? Well the article doesn't say I said it, the article says she said it. LAURIE OAKES: She said it was your view as well as hers. ALEXANDER DOWNER: Honestly, can I just say I think people need to grow up. They need to grow up. My poor wife. I asked her that day after somebody had raised this on a television program, she said she had never said ... I don't know who it was. She said she had never said such a thing. We had a laugh about it. I mean this is what happens, the Labor Party says on the one hand you must not criticise Kevin Rudd, you must not say anything unpleasant about Kevin Rudd and they've been going around pushing this story for a couple of weeks. I've heard about it from time to time coming back from people in the Labor Party. People who know me and my wife for that matter, it's not a very political person, but people who know me know I'm an enormously determined person, enormously determined and I'm absolutely certain that we can win this election. It's going to be tough, I have no illusions about that, but that's just pathetic the way people are going around pretending that my wife ... somebody said something to somebody who said something to somebody and traced back to my wife. She didn't stay it and it's pathetic. LAURIE OAKES: Is it going to be a dirty campaign Mr Downer? There's some nasty stuff in the papers today, for example, about Julia Gillard's partner? ALEXANDER DOWNER: This is the old story isn't it? Whenever anybody criticises Kevin Rudd, well usually he then says it's someone else's fault. He's never responsible for anything that goes wrong or if anybody criticises anybody in the Labor Party, it's dirty pool. Can I just say, you know, I put up with it because I think it's part of political life, but I don't think it would be unrealistic to say that from time to time people like John Howard and Peter Costello and I have been criticised. It does happen. And we have been monstered over and over again, not by the way for 11 and a half years but for the 23 years in my case and the 30 or so years in the Prime Minister's case that we've been in parliament. Look, if a newspaper wants to print something about somebody that's their decision, they make that decision to print these things, I know nothing about Julie Gillard beyond the fact that her parents migrated to Australia, she grew up here in Adelaide, she's sort of a trade union lawyer and a left wing politician and I don't really know anything else about her and I'm not interested in her private life. LAURIE OAKES: How prominent a role will foreign affairs play in the election campaign, do you think? ALEXANDER DOWNER: Well I think, you know, those issues are perhaps not quite so much to the fore at the moment, but I think the fact is that people realise Australia's standing in the world is very high. We have been very effective and very active in the South Pacific fulfilling our responsibilities and it's been, of course, enormously controversial there. We've managed to, I think, recalibrate Australia's standing in Asia from being a country which was begging to be accepted by Asia to a country which is very comfortably involved in the institutions and architecture of the region. I mean I think one of my greater achievements not spoken of too much by the media, who often aren't interested in these sorts of things, was to get Australia into the East-Asia summit to get Australia right into the heart of the architecture of the East Asian region. I think the way we have managed to build not just strong relations with America, but with China, with what we've done with Indonesia in recent years with Japan, I mean I think behind the scenes ... LAURIE OAKES: What about Iraq from Downer? ALEXANDER DOWNER: I'll come back to Iraq but behind the scenes people understand, not just the baying of the critics, but who never talk about these things, by the way, because they feel uncomfortable talking about them, but I think that people understand Australia's standing in the world's never been better. With Iraq, we don't have many troops there. I think it's obviously been controversial, but the troops we do have there are doing a very good job. I think the situation is getting a good deal better. I've been very heartened with the reports I've heard out of Iraq and I think you know, we've seen substantial progress as demonstrated by the British feeling confident enough to downsize a lot of their troops. LAURIE OAKES: Overnight we've had the former US commander, General Richardo Sanchez saying overnight, that the result in Iraq is a nightmare with no end in sight. He says the war plan, which the Australian government was part of, of course, was catastrophically flawed, unrealistically optimistic. How do you react to that? How do you justify that in an election campaign? ALEXANDER DOWNER: I react to that by saying I haven't come across General Sanchez in many years now, three or four years, and I don't know what he's even doing these days. I can tell you what General Petraeus who is the general on charge on the ground says. I can tell you what Ambassador Crocker, the American ambassador says. I can tell you what our post is reporting. I can tell you what the intelligence agencies are saying and the general consensus is exactly what I've said, and that is that the situation is getting better in Iraq. We're seeing a reduction, quite significant reduction in violence. I think very, very importantly, we are seeing al-Qaeda being very significantly degraded as they like to say in Iraq. I think there has been enormous success in recent months against al-Qaeda. That is my judgment based on all the information I have. And I've made this point I think ... the way the British are able now to reduce their numbers down in Basra is an illustration of the point that the situation there is much more under control than it has been and we are making good progress. LAURIE OAKES: You don't think that the Iraq nightmare will cost you votes in the election? ALEXANDER DOWNER: Look, I don't know how people will vote in the election. I mean I think, you know, the Iraq nightmare; you have you your view about it. LAURIE OAKES: That's General Sanchez's view. ALEXANDER DOWNER: Yes, have you General Sanchez's view. I don't think your view is the issue here actually. I think it is what is happening in the Iraq. The fact that the situation is getting better, which I think is the important point here. I mean, I think with the greatest of respect, General Petraeus, the general in charge there, our military people in Iraq, our diplomats on the ground there, people like me who have actually been there in recent times, talked to people, looked at the situation, are likely to know a fair bit about this. Not just playing a political game, Laurie, or trying to make some rhetorical point, but are actually interested in the substance of the issue and I think in terms of the substance of the issue, the situation is getting a lot better there. There of course are significant problems ahead, particularly the problem of political reconciliation. But ... if the alternative strategy just to walk away from Iraq I think is complete madness, absolute madness to do that. I mean look what has happened in Darfur. LAURIE OAKES: We're out of time, but it's not a bad note to end on. Happy campaigning. ALEXANDER DOWNER: Thank you. |
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