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  Interviews: Hussein Shahristani February 23, 2003 Reporter :Jana Wendt The man who was ordered to build a nuclear bomb for Saddam Hussein, Dr Hussein Shahristani, talks to Jana Wendt about the Iraqi dictator and his weapons arsenal now. TRANSCRIPT JANA WENDT: It takes a brave Iraqi to say no to Saddam Hussein, especially when you’re a scientist being ordered to build him a nuclear bomb. That’s exactly what Hussein Shahristani did in 1979. Dr Shahristani was then chief of the Iraq Atomic Energy Commission. For refusing to help Saddam develop his weapons of mass destruction he was tortured and thrown into jail for more than a decade. Dr Shahristani eventually escaped from Iraq in 1991, during the chaos following the Gulf War.He maintains a network of contacts inside Iraq. Dr Shahristani agreed to this interview from our studio in London. Dr Shahristani, thank you very much for joining Sunday. What do your contacts tell you about whether Saddam does or does not have chemical or biological weapons? DR HUSSEIN SHAHRISTANI: I believe that he does have some remaining quantities of his chemical and biological arsenal. He may not have as much as he had in the 1990s. He ... just before he allowed the inspectors in he managed to get rid of some of that material, particularly at areas that have been known to the inspectors, and they could have been visited again, but he is keeping some quantities deep underground and on mobile units. WENDT: So the suggestion by the French recently, for instance, that the number of inspectors should be tripled ... does that make any sense to you? DR SHAHRISTANI: I don’t think it would lead to any great discoveries. As I said, Saddam has mastered his deception tactics, and concealment tactics. He has ... we know he has some deep underground storage areas and tunnel systems, that cannot be easily detected by satellite imagery, and he has fermentors — these are small equipment that can produce germs, and they are mounted on mobile trucks identical to the trucks that are on the road in Iraq distributing food and carrying goods. WENDT: So from what you know, what kind of damage could Saddam inflict, with the kind of chemical and biological weapons that you believe he has? DR SHAHRISTANI: Well, if he decides to use his chemical or biological arsenal against the Iraqi people, and he has a track record of doing so — he has used his chemical weapons against the Iraqis in the north in 1988, and he has used limited amounts in quashing the uprising of 1991 in the south. If Saddam feels he can stop this war by inflicting very high civilian casualties on the Iraqi population by using his chemical weapons he will not hesitate to do so. WENDT:But when you say this would be a means of stopping the war — inflicting large casualties on the Iraqi people — how would that stop any war? DR SHAHRISTANI: He will think that if the international media could show that there are tens of thousands of Iraqis — civilian Iraqis — dead on the streets, in a number of cities, he can get the world opinion to demonstrate to end this war that’s causing such a high civilian casualty, and the war is ended then to avoid any further civilian casualties, he will consider himself to have won the war, regardless of how many Iraqi lives we have lost, or what damage has taken place in Iraq. WENDT: Dr Shahristani, you dealt personally with Saddam Hussein. How do you think that his mind is working at the moment? How do you think he is dealing with the kind of pressure that he surely must be under right now? DR SHAHRISTANI: I think he realises the seriousness of the situation, and his limited chances of surviving this confrontation. I think he will think his only hope of ... of surviving it is to shield himself will millions of Iraqis. He will try to fight the war in Baghdad, and not outside Baghdad. There he has four million Iraqis in a, you know, highly concentrated, geographically. WENDT: I haven’t asked you yet, of course, about your own specialty — that is the nuclear field. Now, you were asked specifically by Saddam Hussein to develop a nuclear bomb for him. Is that correct? DR SHAHRISTANI: Yes. I mean, it was made clear to us at the Atomic Energy Board as soon as Saddam became ... appointed, rather, himself President, in 1979, that they wanted us to stop our research on peaceful applications and concentrate on what they called strategic applications — to develop a nuclear bomb. WENDT: And what did he say to you about his intentions with that nuclear bomb? DR SHAHRISTANI: He was not very direct himself at the beginning, but as I mentioned earlier, he did send his step-brother to me, and he said very clearly that they need the bomb to reshape the map of the Middle East. This was early summer of 1980, even before Saddam had started his war against Iran. WENDT: Now, Dr Shahristani, you were tortured by Saddam Hussein’s Government. Can you tell me something about the treatment that was meted out to you in those days of torture? DR SHAHRISTANI: I was hanged from my hand tied in the back to the ceiling and high voltage props were used on the sensitive parts of the body, and I was beaten. But they were careful with me not to leave permanent marks on my body. I could hear other people in the cells nearby being tortured, and later I saw them in their chambers — in the torture chambers. They were using electric saws to chop off fingers, toes, hands, feet. They were drilling holes into people’s bones. They were using hot iron on their bodies. They were bringing their children and wives were right in front of the victims, and children sometimes were tortured to death in front of fathers to extract confessions from them. WENDT: With that horrendous experience, we now are at a point in the world where it appears that there will be an attack on Iraq. Do you support that attack? DR SHAHRISTANI: No, I do not support an attack on Iraq. I think it’s utterly unjust for the Iraqi people to put them in one box with the regime of Saddam and call that Iraq, and then direct sanctions against them, or attack them. I think the war should be focused on Saddam’s power base, on his elite republican guards, on his security apparatus, on his party headquarters, presidential palaces, and spare the Iraqi people yet further suffering. WENDT: And when you talk to United States and British officials, as I know you do, are they hearing that message that you’re delivering to us now? DR SHAHRISTANI: Yes. I mean, they hear it.They assure us that they are looking very carefully into their plans of action, and they are paying great attention to details — how to avoid civilian casualties, or damage to the infrastructure. However, quite frankly their record, at least in Afghanistan, doesn’t show that they have been very successful in targeting, and there has been fairly large collateral ... what they call collateral damage. And we hope not to see similar situation in Iraq. WENDT: Finally, let me ask you this — we have seen millions of people marching in the streets, the capital cities of many countries around the world. Our Prime Minister John Howard has been attacked in recent days for claiming that these marches were only giving support to Saddam Hussein. Is he right or is he wrong? DR SHAHRISTANI: The Iraqi people have suffered under Saddam. They’ve been killed en masse over 30 years now. And for the Iraqi people, there is no option but to see Saddam removed to put an end to their suffering. And for the peace marchers to demand a stop to the war without following it up with practical ways of helping the Iraqi people to get rid of this dictator, and save them from further atrocities by the regime I think they are stopping short of helping the Iraqi people. WENDT: So, but just quickly, do you think that those peace marchers around the world did give comfort to Saddam Hussein? DR SHAHRISTANI: They do give comfort to Saddam Hussein. I mean, Saddam Hussein will seize any opportunity to ... to further his cause, and his plan. To stay in power and control the Iraqi people, as he has always been doing. So in a way Saddam will be benefitting from them unless these marches can really turn into a demand to remove Saddam from power in Iraq without using excessive force. WENDT: Doctor Shahristani, I very much appreciate your time. We must leave it there. DR SHAHRISTANI: Thank you for the opportunity. WENDT: Iraqi scientist, Dr Hussein Shahristani. ENDS |
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